• Says Nigeria in mess because of transactional governance •Tinubu tired, lacks capacity to govern •140m persons slipped into poverty under current federal govt • What I would have done differently regarding fuel subsidy removal
By Chidi Nnadi, Tony Manuaka and Chukwuma Umeorah
Today, Mr Peter Obi, the presidential candidate of the Nigeria Democratic Congress (NDC), clocks 65 years. For him, age is just a number as his strength is unbelievable.
On Thursday, The Sun team had an exclusive interview with Obi on his arrival from abroad, where he visited five different cities in six days.
It was indeed a vantage Mr Peter Obi as he spoke on his quest to become Nigeria’s president, 2027 elections, his party’s travails, the Tinubu administration, security challenge in the country, the state of the country and his source of strength, among others.
Your birthday is three days away from today. How do you feel at 65? How has life treated you?
God has been very gracious to me as a person. Whatever I am today is a result of God’s grace. I strive as much as possible not to abuse this grace. Wherever I find myself, I offer the best for humanity. I would have wished that people of my age had done better for the society and for the coming generation, which is what we are now striving to achieve.
Many still don’t know how you get the kind of energy you have at 65 years. A Peter Obi could be here today, in America tomorrow, and may go to Iran from there the next day. Do you take energy boost drinks, or what? How and when do you rest?
Well, whatever I do is by His grace. Whatever energy I receive is by His grace. Because I believe that whatever I do, I do it for humanity, I put all necessary energy and effort. I left Lagos on Thursday for the United States. I arrived in one city on Friday for a short meeting in Houston. I left thereafter for Washington D.C., again, for one day. From there I travelled to New York, again for one day. From New York, I left for Berlin for one day. And then to the U.K. And back again. So, within five, six days, I was able to go to five different cities in three countries and then back in Nigeria. Tomorrow (Friday), I have to be in Enugu, Lagos and Abuja for different functions. It is just by God’s grace that I function like that.
So where is the energy coming from?
My energy comes from God and I’m grateful to the Almighty.
How do you rest?
Well, like every other person, I get about a few hours of sleep in a day. Medically, one should be resting for at least eight hours per day. I’ve never in my life slept for eight hours. Maybe I will do that in the future.
What is the maximum time you sleep?
Usually, I get about three hours, four hours sleep. For example, I’m here now, I’m going to have a 6:00a.m. flight tomorrow. That means I have to get up by 4:00 a.m. to be able to be at the airport. And if I finish my meetings tomorrow, it’ll be about 12:00-1:00p.m.
The 2027 presidential election is just about six months away from now. At some point, you promised that you must be on the ballot. Going by what is happening to your party now, the NDC, are you still very optimistic that you are going to be on the ballot?
I said so, yes. But remember, whatever I say, again, it’s by His grace. For me, I have a wish that I want to be on the ballot. And I still believe today that I’m going to be on the ballot. But the rest is left for God. NDC has done its own primary election. I’ve been chosen. It’s been uploaded to INEC. But you know, today in Nigeria, it’s not the same thing because the government has chosen to do things wrongly.
Why do you say so? What have they done wrongly?
You can ask Nigerians what is happening. What did they do wrong? When the leader of the country said he’s happy that other parties are in trouble. That should worry everybody. It should worry you too. It should worry everybody.
Some people are saying that you probably didn’t do your due diligence before joining the NDC. Could that be true?
I believe there is nothing wrong with the NDC. The problem is with Nigeria itself. Political parties can exist, choose their candidates, present them for the voters to decide their fates. The job of the regulator, the referee, is to conduct fair and credible elections and not what they are doing today. These are things I want to challenge.
We thought the concern was with your party’s logo?
Don’t worry about that. It’s not an issue. The issues are the people in power. They don’t want to do the right thing. We all see it. When someone like me get an opportunity of serving, you’ll see the difference; you will see how opposition parties are built to be contributors to developments. The government ought to encourage the opposition, not the other way around. All of you should join to ensure that happens. Opposition is an ingredient and what it takes to build a democratic setting. Everybody should encourage them.
How about ADC? When you first joined ADC, the tempo was very high. What did you see that made you to leave?
The same thing we were complaining about. The same thing. Look at what ADC is also going through. That shouldn’t be in a democratic society. It shouldn’t be. The rascality is too much. You know, the rascality is too much. ADC was properly negotiated, articulated, handed over to the people I consider very decent. You cannot compare anybody in terms of taking charge of a party than David Mark. And the people who are there, look at the rascality. These are things that shouldn’t be in our politics today.
Do you think you are being victimised as an individual or as an opposition leader?
No, I am not being victimised. Society is being victimised. Not me. It has nothing to do with me. It is just that Nigerians are complacent and thinking that it is about Peter Obi. It has nothing to do with me. I just want a better society. I want a society that will be better for everybody, not just as a person.
Don’t you think that these things are happening because our political parties are not organised in terms of having ideological differences?
Nigerian leader should organise them. That is why he is a leader. That is what I am going to offer when I assume that office. I will organise them. Leadership goes beyond just doing things the way they are being done today. It is wrong. We should organise the opposition to contribute to national development. Ideological differences do not fall from heaven. It is human beings that can make them happen. The leader should lead by being at the forefront of making sure that things work in every aspect of society because we want to bring unity, peace, and progress.
You recently raised the alarm that your life was being threatened or at risk. And some people within the political circle are saying that you are crying wolf. What did you see that made you to cry out?
I have tried to go to about three states, but the governors would say that I shouldn’t come. What else do you need to hear? You guys have seen enough threats. Tell me what that means. Everybody can see it. Everybody can feel it.
The question is: don’t we have freedom of movement in Nigeria? Why would anybody tell me not to come to a state? I have been told that if I come, my life is in danger. What else do you want me to say? What I am saying is there for everybody to see.
When you said they warned you, we heard about Edo State where the governor said you should tell him in advance before coming so that he can provide security. And Benue State too…
He didn’t say that. Maybe that is your word.
So, why do you think they don’t want you to be in their states?
That is what I am saying; the rascality has to change. We need to have a country.
In 2023 elections, we saw what looked like a revolution. The rise of the Obidient Movement that gave you massive support. And three to four years down the line, do you think that support is still there?
It is even more now. Nigerians are determined that we cannot continue at this pace. The way the country is heading, we will all be destroyed, including you.
Specifically, what are the things that you have seen that this government has done wrongly that need to be corrected?
I don’t need to say anything. I just want to ask people how they felt before the people in office came and how they feel today. What do I have to tell you? Even you, ask yourself this: Is this how a country should be? It is time to change and see things from a better perspective. If you think things are better today than they were before, judge yourself. People are feeling the heat. They know things are worse. All indicators have shown that things are worse. We had 87 million people living in poverty. Today, there are 140 million people in poverty. So, what else do you want me to tell you?
So, who do we blame: the politicians or the system?
We blame the leadership. It has nothing to do with the system.
You made a choice of Rabiu Kwankwaso as vice presidential candidate. What informed your decision to pick him?
It is a very simple thing. Kwankwaso has the philosophy of pulling people out of poverty. I have the same philosophy. Kwankwaso believes in education. You cannot change the society without education. If you look at my X (formerly Twitter), I made it clear that I will emphasise on education. Education is going to change the society. Nigeria must be seen to form its innermost human capital, which we need to develop. Kwankwaso believes in this. I do. We have a synergy.
You and Kwankwaso had the opportunity of forming this alliance in 2023. What happened that it didn’t work out?
Those who think about yesterday and today will miss tomorrow. The past is gone. We are talking about the present.
Is everything going on well right now between the two of you?
I don’t know why people talk about differences between people who are working together. Have you ever seen us quarrelling? You see, people quarrel even in offices because of transactional governance. The country is in a mess because of transactional governance. I am not into transactional government. I am into transformational governance. We want to change the society and make it better. We want to pull people out of poverty, not the other way around.The two of you have large followers. How are you managing them? The Kwankwasiyya and the Obidient Movement?
We do not just have large followers alone. People are gravitating to what is right. How are we going to manage them? We have no problem whatsoever. We want to change the society. Our followers want a changed and better society.
Two major and key members of the Obidient Movement, Randy Peter and Mama Pee, were recently quizzed by the EFCC. What information do you have about the issue?
Like I said before, the system is against whatever I do or try to do. The country has more difficult things to manage, but they will leave it and begin to chase people around. We have seen people creating fake budgets, fake agencies, fake ministries. Nothing happens to them. We have more serious issues than just looking for people who are trying to help Nigeria have a better society through their advocacy.
In 2023, the major presidential candidates, including you, promised to remove fuel subsidy. When President Tinubu was eventually declared the winner of that election, the first thing he did was to remove subsidy. And now he’s being criticised heavily for subsidy removal. Why?
Nobody has criticised him for removing subsidy. The problem is not the removal of subsidy, but where the savings invested in is. As you can see, the money is going to fake ministries, fake agencies, fake this and fake that. That’s what we need to deal with.
I will remove subsidy. I say it at any opportunity I have, that I will end subsidy. The reason being that within the subsidy regime, there is corruption components. We need to eliminate that so that we can know the actual subsidy and gradually deal with it. And also show where the savings which you preached were invested. We can’t continue to borrow money to be paying subsidy. Subsidy removal will lead us to a lot of savings. And actually, after some months, we have saved trillions. The question is: Where are the trillions saved invested? If I say I’m removing subsidy it is because we want to invest it in critical areas of development, which is, maybe education, health, and pulling people out of poverty. Have you seen it? But we’ve actually borrowed more. This government has borrowed more than all the previous governments put together. Today, we are owing those who have enabled the generation companies when it comes to power, which they promised to solve. We’re still owing them. We’re owing contractors and nobody can see anything. Lives of people have not improved. So, that’s the problem.
But some of these funds are going to the states, and some of them are actually feeling the impact of it…
I don’t doubt that, but are you feeling the impact? We are seeing poverty instead. It’s a very simple thing. The poverty level is increasing. People are hungry. All indices of measurement show this. We are one of the hungriest countries. So, where are you feeling the impact? I’ll follow you to your village. Let’s go there so I can see the impact you have felt. Since some of you say you feel the impact, I need to follow you so that you show me where the impact is being felt.
But some of the states are doing well in the area of road infrastructure.
No, no, no. My brother, I said let me follow you so you show me where people are feeling it. Let me tell you: the most critical contribution to development is human capital development, human infrastructure.
How many roads have you passed in the past one year? I travel every day across Nigeria. So, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
The country is still facing very serious challenges in the area of security and energy supply – electricity. Tell us what you would do differently if you become president?
We’re not investing our resources in critical areas. Security is a critical area. Security of life and property is critical. You deal with it. The same thing with power. And I’ve explained it in various outings. That we’re going to be committed and go ahead and tackle the issue of insecurity. Which, as long as I’m concerned, you need all the political will. You need all the commitment to deal with it decisively. And show Nigeria that you’re doing so aggressively.
On power, I’ve said what I’m going to deliver. That I’ll make sure that within four years, we will generate, transmit, and distribute at least 10,000 megawatts. If you look at what is happening in Aba, for example, with the Integrated Power Plant, that can be replicated in different places. Embedded power. There are so many things you can do. Other nations have done it. And I’ve been going around, studying what other people have done. From Egypt to Indonesia. Everything they’ve done is in the open. It’s not rocket science.
When issues of corruption are being discussed in this country, whether at the state or federal level, people tend to exonerate you as someone who served as governor and yet, there’s no issue of corruption around you. Tell us, what was the secret? How did you do it?
There’s no secret to it. There’s no secret. There are a lot of people who challenge me. And say, oh, it’s not true. It’s not this. But what I tell them is that I’m not a saint. But what I could steal, I left. No thief, no corrupt person can see what he can steal or appropriate for himself and leave it. Nobody ever sat down and said to me, Peter, save money. But then I left office and was not owing salary, gratuity, pension or any contractor who had delivered or executed his job. Or supply which had been delivered. I was not owing any. I even kept money for the salary of that month I left office. And other deals that I did for that month. I left N36 billion and $150 million. Some have challenged me, saying that I’m being paid interest on dollars component. I’ve said, go and verify about the dollars and bonds, to know whether the interest is being paid to me.
Still on the issue of insecurity, particularly the activities of IPOB in the South-East which has affected businesses. Many businesses and businessmen have had to relocate to other places because of issues like this. What would you do differently?
I condemned it… And I stand on that. I stand on it. It is wrong to assault people’s businesses. And like you said, it affected businesses which has made many to relocate.
What would you do differently if you became president to ensure security?
Well, I was governor. We had some of those agitations, but we managed it. I don’t want to blame anyone, but we managed it during our time.
You have a very strong youth followership in this current dispensation. And if you become president, what programmes do you have for the youths?
Well, it’s not a question of having youth followership. It is that our youths have been neglected. They should be our engine of growth. Our youths in their productive age are not given the support that is required. This is the age they are going to be entrepreneurs. This is our energy. This is our human capital that would have been unleashed to the world.
Nigeria’s immense human resource, that is if we articulate it very well, educate them very well, show them they have the right skills, support them in their development, they will be able to compete globally. And that’s what we’re going to do for them.
Some people have described President Tinubu as a man of courage. And when they say this, they point out the fact that he removed subsidy; they say he has reformed the tax system, and now he’s talking about state police. Do you agree with those who hold such view?
Well, let me tell you, everything he is doing now, we all agreed to do it. The truth is that President Tinubu is tired. He doesn’t have the capacity to govern this country today. Those who are pushing him are those benefiting from the confusion. It is time we allow him to go home and rest.
The Tinubu that was governor of Lagos State is not Tinubu the President. They are two different persons in terms of strength. We are human beings. I won’t be doing what I’m doing today in the next couple of years. In the future, everything comes with age.
It appears that every political party you join suddenly develops one problem or the other. We have talked about this before, from ADC to NDC, starting with Labour Party. What is actually the problem? Is it you or the parties?
The cause of the problems is usually the power itself. They can’t stop it.
The election is fast approaching. How prepared are you in terms of mobilisation and everything that has to be done?
When campaign begins, it is left for the people to listen? All of us who will campaign are on that issue.
At some point, you were criticised. Some people said you didn’t have strong political structure. That you didn’t have the strength that is required to win presidential elections in this country. How do you respond to that?
Remember what I said in 2023. The structure I have now is the structure of the future. The structure of people who knew me well. I didn’t build my own structures. I am within a party, the NDC. And I’m working with partners who believe in a common ideology for a better country.
In your mantra in 2023, you promised to move Nigeria from consumption to production. Are you still maintaining this?
It remains so… If you look at my tweets on the 1st of July and my tweets today (Thursday), they are consistent with that. Yes, I want to drive it down to the specifics. What particular thing? Go and read what I said. I’m investigating what drives development. Education. Human capital. That’s what drives everything you can talk about in development. It’s within the space I’ve said. Education. Health. And pulling people out of poverty. That’s it.
You promised to cut down on costs of governance. So, if you become president, will you reduce the number of ministries?
It has nothing to do with the number of ministries. That’s not cutting costs of governance. There are so many things we can do to cut costs of governance. I’ve done these things at the state level. I didn’t reduce the ministries. In fact, I increased it, I brought in Ministry of Planning, yet, we had a reduction in costs of governance. There are too much wastes that we can cut down. And you fight corruption. That is a waste. I can do that at any time. It’s very easy to do.
Currently, the bill to create state police has passed through the National Assembly, what’s your take?
There’s nothing wrong with state police; even community police. We need it. When I was governor, I supported all community security systems. I even bought them vehicles and equipment. Every community under me had a vehicle from government, even all necessary equipment. And I paid their salaries. And it worked. So, it’s not even just state. It has to go down to the communities and local government because that’s how you can find security. There’s no problem in that.
As a presidential candidate of a major political party, we understand that you’re entitled to security from the state. How much of that do you enjoy?
You said so. I don’t know if I’m entitled. Maybe I’m yet to be provided with one. Let’s see.
It’s common to have wives of presidents embarking on pet projects. What would Nigeria expect from your wife in this regard if you become president?
Well, I’m not president yet. When I’m president, we’ll do it differently. We have more critical issues. Critical issues are like how does a child of nobody in this country become somebody without knowing anybody? We have more critical problems. We all came from various backgrounds that are humble. We want to keep it at that. So, that’s it.
We are marching very closely to January 16, 2027. What would you expect from INEC and security agencies?
Well, INEC and security agents are part of Nigeria. Those who were in INEC yesterday are no longer there today. So, it’s better for them to be part of building a better society. Because whatever they are, whatever they do, they will come back to live in the same society. You see, people must know this. I live in Onitsha today. When I was governor if I didn’t see Onitsha as important to place it where it is today, I won’t be able to live there today.
If you are given 60 seconds to talk to Nigerians about the coming election, what would you tell them?
I would tell them to go out and register for voting. And be committed that we will now, in 2027, insist on free, fair, and credible elections. As Nigerians, in our polling stations, we should unite in saying this nonsense will not continue.
Countries have said no to their leaders, saying we cannot continue on this trajectory, we cannot continue this way. We have our children, we have the young ones coming. Let’s do the right things.
I urge every Nigerian to go out, register, and be determined. Election in 2027 is not among the candidates. It’s between Nigerians and politicians. We now want the society to work
(The Sun)